This is a four-year-old post I wrote over on Justin's blog. (also, I think Justin may have helped with the wording because some of it seems more sophisticated) It's a topic I've been thinking about again and rather than reinvent the wheel, I'm going to plagiarize myself. Can I do that? Well, I'm going to.
Behold, a voice from yesteryear:
Lately I've been thinking about what to teach Grace about modesty as she gets older. Right now it's a matter of, "put your shirt down, please don't take your clothes off" (actually these days - 2008- it's 'more about covering her body with sunblock and covering her clothes for painting), but some day I'll need to say more.
I don't like the school of thought that says girls need to dress modestly so they don't cause young men and boys to have impure thoughts. Honestly, they're (men/boys) going to have their own thoughts whether or not a girl is dressed appropriately or not. It also feeds into the cultural norm that girls are responsible for the moral well-being of boys. I totally don't buy that argument. Whatever happened to free agency, or choice and accountability? People are responsible for their own thoughts.
This is what I believe: thoughts about sex and what not are natural and happen with or without provocation. What you do with those thoughts (entertaining them, embellishing and whatnot) is really what can cause problems or not. And that is the responsibility of the individual, not anyone else.
I want to teach Grace to dress and act modestly for her own sake. To show respect to her body because it's her body. I want Grace to love her body and be thankful for what it does for her. I hope I can convey to her that keeping it covered and out of harms way (literally, not metaphorically) is the best way to show self-respect. I don't want her to have issues regarding the right body type or size (although this almost seems like a rite of passage for most girls.)
I also don't buy into the argument that less clothing is more empowering for women. I've been trying to figure out where that comes from and the conclusion I've reached is this: men can get away with wearing less because in theory they have less to cover. Therefore, if women want to be more empowered they should also adopt the social norms for men. The idea that men set the standard for what's right or good really rankles with me. (I should admit here to being a somewhat angry person--something I need to work out.)
It's not that I think men are any less good or righteous than women they just aren't any more so either. There are far better ways of being powerful: taking charge of a situation, being in control of oneself, asserting your feelings and needs, etc. Women dressing less to be more powerful is playing to the lowest common denominator. We can do better (and many already do.)
This is not the point in which I start a bra burning. I would just like Grace to have fewer hang-ups about her body than I did and do. Really, isn't that what every parent wants? For their child to be better prepared, better at everything than they (the parents) are?
One reason I've been thinking about this is that my rules for Grace's church dress has changed. Up until the last year or so, she's been allowed to wear sleeveless dresses to church and church activities. She appears modestly dressed to me so I don't worry about it. I'm also more concerned that her underwear not say crazy things like 'eye candy' and what not. (seriously, right? some of the "little girl" clothing lines are a step away from $2 hooker)
Lately however, it's come to my attention that none of the other girls at church, of Grace's age, wear anything sleeveless. In an effort to avoid comment or Grace's feeling on the 'outs', I've explained to her that she can't wear sleeveless clothing to church anymore. I just put it as 'that's the way it is'. The fact that neither Justin or I wear sleeveless anything helps with this argument -meaning there is no argument. I still buy her sleeveless clothing for play and school. Also, I tend to make a bigger deal about the potential for sunburn than modesty when it comes to clothing choice.
It's hard for me to know which of my feelings are religion inspired, upbringing/parentally inspired, or just plain caving to the popular opinion on church dress standards. How do I sort that out?!
What are your rules (or what will they be/were they)? How do you make distinctions or draw lines? Or do you?
Oh yeah, and today I'm thankful for waffle fries.
11 comments:
So well said miss kitti! Modesty is definitely a big issue when raising kids, especially girls. I don't allow my girls to wear sleeveless to church, and I think it IS because I was raised that way. I guess it just comes down to what you feel comfortable with them wearing. I don't think anything is wrong with sleeveless, as long as they're modest (no big arm holes) and look nice. But aside from the sleeveless thing, even more important to me is the length of their skirts. And sorry if I offend anyone-I don't mean to-but I can't stand it when I see girls in primary, and I'm talking girls around Gwen's age-10, 11, wearing short skirts to church, or anywhere for that matter. It just really bugs me for some reason! Especially when they've got the back riding up even higher than the front and go prancing around in their high heeled shoes. Give me a break! I know it's hard to find knee length skirts, but there are some out there if you look. You don't have to settle for the short mini-skirts. Luckily I haven't had any complaints from my girls on what they can and can't wear. Let's hope it stays that way as they grow older!
Great post. And while for the most part Miss Magoo doesn't wear anything sleeveless. She has in the past had 1 or 2 sleeveless dresses/shirts. We've never made a real big deal out of it, but she's only 4 so I'm sure that at some point this topic will come up. We sorta' decided that we would just start out with the "no sleeveless" tops to begin with. And like I said for the most part we've stuck with it. Do I think that a 4 year (or even a 10 yr)is being inmodest by wearing a tanktop, not really. (though I think that it's worse when parents try and dress their little girls like streetwalkers.) Anywho, I think that you need to do what works for you and your fmaily. I see a lot of little girls at church wearing things that I would never put Miss Magoo in, and most aren't inmodest, just scary. And while we are on the topic, what is with girls, especially YW not wearing slips!!! Don't they know who bad it looks when their thin skirt gets stuck in their rearend-crack because they are wearing a thong and no slip, YUCK!
Oh and I love waffle fries!!
Today I'm thankful for the park.
Waffle fries are the BEST. You are such a great mom!! I would have to say that every family is different and does what is best for their own family. I do agree though with what you are saying! You are so great Kitti!
i don't know the answers either but i have been starting to think about this more, since i'm raising a girl who will one day have to answer these questions herself.
just a memory: my mom didn't let me or lauren wear sleeveless clothes (to church or anywhere else) -- but the only reason she gave was that she thought it looked tacky when a girl's bra straps showed. ;-) not an issue just yet for gracie. i'm inclined to wait until as long as possible to instigate clothing rules...in the name of letting little girls be little. and innocent. but i can see how you'd want to be consistent.
Not sure I'm allowed to comment on this, but three things:
1) I did not contribute to the composition of this post. It's all Kitti. She's just that good.
2) Modesty is important -- especially for girls and boys. Just like morality is much more than sex (honesty, kindness, , modesty is much more than how much skin is or isn't on display. It's an attitude, an approach, an integrity that should encompass not just our views on fashion but also manners, language, and relationships. We redefine the word modesty as only "what we wear" at our great peril and loss. Do this, and we inevitably arrive at a situation where it's difficult if not impossible to explain logically why tank tops are bad while lace-collared poofy-sleeved dresses are good.
Fashions change. Our grandparents wore wrist- and ankle-length garments; our mothers who went to BYU couldn't wear jeans! If there is anything constant about modesty it is that our concept of the body as part of the larger self must come first and inform our clothing choices--not vice versa.
3) Tank tops are not bad.
/end rant.
By the way, Sherry Carpet and Lauren's mom (also mine) didn't let me wear sleeveless clothes to church or anywhere else, either. :-D
Erika -the ultra minis bug me too. Grace has been blessed with super long legs and it's always an issue to keep the shorts and skirts at an appropriate length.
Moddy -I've wondered about the slip issue as well because they are hard to find for little kids. I was wondering if no one does that any more.
I really like the nice smooth lines when a slip is worn, unless it's meltingly hot.
Melissa -hi! Welcome.
SC -I don't like the bra straps either but they hadn't occurred to me yet for the reason you said. Although, we're fast approaching that age. You and Lauren always dress fabulously (is that a word?) so I can only hope Grace shares your good taste.
Richard -good points, all. I agree about modesty being more than clothing. I know we've talk about raising Grace to act appropriate to any given situation for the sake of modesty, as well.
moddy-I cracked up at the thong thing! so funny, and so true!!
miss kitti! amen to everyone having control over their own thoughts. the argument that girls should dress modestly because boys can't control their thoughts irks me every time. and what gets me even more in a tizzy is when men start pointing their fingers at women they deem immodest. i'd be rich if i had a dollar for every editorial on modesty written by a man in byu's "daily universe," and i didn't even go to byu!
richard dandelion, thanks for your comments too. you two are such a great pair. seriously.
Hi Kitti,
I have been thinking about this topic lately after a recent article I read in the Ensign. Actually it may have been a transcript from the YW general meeting held in March. (We don't currently subscribe to the Ensign, so everything I read from there is usually online or borrowed from the church library.) The article detailed how the Young Women leaders are constantly being asked the standard on appropriate bathing attire and other modesty issues. Although I know mandates have been given on this in the past, (no midriffs, no sleeveless) the leaders instead asked the girls (in the transcript) to take it to the "Source." That is, they invited them to seriously ponder and pray and record their answers.
Initially I felt like this might be kind of manipulative, but ultimately I think it takes it back to what has been previously written on your post: Modesty is an attitude and one which I want my kids to adopt for themselves---not because I said so, not because some arbitrary boundaries were put in place, but because they love God, they respect their bodies and they can feel what is right, because I do believe that God answers prayers and will guide us if we ask.
And what do I feel is "right?" I have no issues with sleeveless clothing. I allow all my children to wear it. (Gabe owns some sleeveless basketball type shirts.)
As for myself, I was NOT allowed to wear tank tops or anything above the knee while residing in my parents home. I think when WE as parents make all the rules and decisions such as these for our children we stunt their growth. Sometimes the best thing we can do is offer a postive example, give our opinion, and let them decide. It may take some time (and a huge learning curve,) but I think it is better for all involved.
Wow, that was long...sorry..
PS Sage has two slips and LOVES them!!
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